I Think I Understand You

(cross-posted at Clintonistas for Obama)

I've spent the last two or three months demonizing and vilifying the people around here who said they couldn't or wouldn't vote for Obama. I've been pretty harsh about it. I've claimed that none of them were true Democrats and said their motivations were purely self-centered. I've called them fools and Republicans. I've even called some of them racists.

Well. I'm here to issue an apology.

Not to the assholes who call Obama "Obambi". Not to the jerks who attack Michelle. Not to the racists who use Hillary as an excuse to oppose Barack. Not to the selfish idiots who are using her as a mascot for a "movement" which has little to do with anything beyond their own overgrown egos. Not to people like Harriet Christian. Certainly not to PUMA as a group.

But I'm here to apologize to people like Ann Price-Mills, a Clinton delegate who was interviewed by CNN last night just after Hillary's impassioned, spectacular speech. She doesn't know me, but I've thought of people like her with disdain. Why? Because she doesn't know whether she can vote for Obama, and I've always considered that petty and self-centered. Sometimes I get a bad case of tunnel vision and see things in black and white: vote for Obama or you're not a real Democrat, support him or you don't care about your country, be an adult or act like a stupid child. My top priority is to make sure Barack and his family move themselves and their belongings into the White House this January. I don't have a lot of consideration for people who haven't dedicated themselves to accomplishing that goal.

But last night I saw that woman's anguish and her dedication. I saw her indecision. And it was real, not feigned. It wasn't born of bitterness or spite or hatred. And it wasn't what she said, but the way she said it. I could hear the suppressed sobs in her voice, and she touched me on a very deep level.

I heard her express her faith in Hillary, her trust that she could have pushed this country in a new and better direction:

"I saw in Hillary what my potential future could be. I saw more than just dreams. I saw things that could be realities. In her eyes and in her words I could envision the reality of knowing that we could actually have green jobs instead of just talk, that we could have the image that we once had of a United States that was respected and that went out and did the jobs it was supposed to do on a global level. I saw the country that we strive to be and wanted to be. And she could have made it happen."

And then I listened to her agonize about her vote in November. She never said, "I won't vote for Obama." It was pure indecision, and it was clearly painful. She doesn't hate Obama. She's worried about his "inexperience". And even though I think he's got plenty of experience to lead this nation (honestly, is anyone ever fully "ready" to be president?), I respect that she actually has a reason to doubt her vote.

"I will not vote for McCain. I will not vote for McCain. But for the first time since I was 18, and that's been a long time, I may be faced with something I don't want to have to deal with. I've never not voted. I am one of the strongest Democrats I know. I call up all my family and say, 'You need to get out the house, I don't care how much rain is pouring down, I don't care what's going on in your schedule, you need to vote.' But for the first time I'm faced with not being the person who calls them and says go vote. They may have to call me and tell me and remind me of how hard and how long we strived to get to the right to vote, the right to be here. Experience counts, I don't care what anybody tells you, and his resume is just. . ."

When Ann Price-Mills tells me she's a lifelong Democrat, I believe her. Her passion and sadness and worry touched me last night. And truthfully, I strongly believe that a woman like this -- with her heart obviously in the right place -- will come around by November and vote for our nominee. For some reason, I feel little fear that this lady won't show up to cast her ballot for Obama in a few months. And in the meantime, she helped me understand something I thought I'd never understand.

To those of you who hang out on PUMA sites and bash Obama and his family and the Democratic party, well, I have no use for you. But to those of you whose struggles are genuine and heartfelt, those of you who are conflicted and honestly don't know what "the right thing" to do is, I'm sorry for assuming you were nothing but selfish assholes. I wish you the best of luck with your struggles, and if I can help in any way, I'm here.

For the record, however, I still don't think you should be hanging out on liberal blogs if your SOLE purpose is to try to cast doubt on Obama. If you don't know whether you can vote for him, I would recommend sitting back silently, watching and reading, or contacting people privately. This is a site dedicated to electing Democrats, and constantly raising concerns about him helps no one -- it will not engender a positive or open-minded reaction from anyone. Maybe this was a bad time to write this diary, since everyone's talking about unity. But I thought a small dose of understanding might compliment that move toward unity nicely.



Display:


I don't expect tips for this odd diary, (2.00 / 27)

but I wanted to say, here's hoping everyone's enjoying the convention as much as I am.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:42:54 PM EST

Re: I don't expect tips for this odd diary, (2.00 / 7)

You're getting one anyway.

Rec'ed


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:56:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Too bad... (2.00 / 5)

You're getting mojo for this! Thanks. I know I've been awfully harsh toward PUMA McTrolls, as they're not real Democrats & they deserve the s--t they're getting now. But for real Hillary Clinton Democrats like this delegate, I know it must be tough for her. I just hope she comes around & sees what Hillary sees.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't expect tips for this odd diary, (2.00 / 4)

You get my hearty rec as well, sricki!


"Can We Build It? Yes We Can!" - Bob the Builder
by Stipes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:09:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't expect tips for this odd diary, (2.00 / 4)

Odd diary?  What is odd about this, exactly?  You beat me to writing this diary about Price-Mills and other disaffected Democrats, and you did it far better than I could have.

It's very easy to fall into the mindset that bashes any and all Democrats unsure of Obama as dead-enders, as PUMAs, as concern/purity trolls, etc.  This attitude, very prevalent here, does nothing to reach out to people who have very legitimately held concerns.  Note, I didn't say the concerns themselves were legitimate.  I said that the concerns were legitimately held, and in the case of Price-Mills, we should at least give her that.  

Most of us are solid Democrats at heart who also want the best leadership possible for our country.  For those holdouts like Price-Mills, the answer is not to call her a PUMA (she's not), a dead-ender, or worse, a "shallow idiot".


by MMR2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you (2.00 / 7)

Thank you for getting me back on here and for showing respect for people like Ann, and people like me. I used to be a frequent poster/commenter on here during the primaries, and I fondly remember your diaries and the discussions you had. Since June, I've not really interacted on this site mostly out of my own sense based on what you said -- that this is a site dedicated to electing Democrats. It's not that I'm not a lifelong Democrat, and it's not that I don't support Democrats.

What Ann is going through is what a lot of us are going through. We put a lot of ourselves into Hillary, and for someone to simply turn their noses up at us and say that we should just 'get over it', as if it's easy to flip and switch, and all will be forgotten and we will magically all feel for Barack Obama what we felt for Hillary Clinton. It's not an easy thing to do. Some of us may never get there. But like she said, Barack Obama has two months. It's up to him now. Is he up to it? I'm sure. But there's work to be done. I heard from Hillary why I should vote Democrat; I need to hear from Obama why I should vote for Obama.

I appreciate your diary greatly, and I thank you for writing it.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HEY!! (2.00 / 5)

I missed you! You were one of the best, most rational Clinton supporters here. Obama will never be Hillary to me. Hell, no one will. It took me a long time before I could reach the point where I knew I could gladly support him, but I finally got there.

Hey, don't you leave us again!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:33:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

git on back here, you! (2.00 / 2)

I'll say what I have been saying, cause it's worth it to make sure rapscallions like you get to hear it: You got till one week before the election to make your decision!

I really don't mind screamin', yellin' or just plain snarlin' at Obama... Some of it's deserved, and venting is good for you!

I know you'll make the right decision ;-)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:26:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey VAAL! (none / 0)

Welcome back!

all feel for Barack Obama what we felt for Hillary Clinton

Think you've just nailed the disconnect right there: no-one sane is asking anyone to feel exactly the same about X and they did about Y.  Particularly if they think that X is the coolest thing since sliced bread.

I think Y is pretty damn cool (maybe not quite as cool as sliced bread, but then I'm incredibly lazy and might start gnawing on shoes if I had to slice my own bread).  But if I couldn't have Y, and my choices were between X (which is pretty similar to Y) and Z (which is as close to either X or Y as sliced bread is to dog butt) I'd be plenty happy with X.

X and Y aren't the same, and your feelings for the two don't need to be the same at all.  We don't have any X in the cupboard, though, and we can live on Y-cakes and jam which beats the hell out of dog butt.

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey VAAL! (none / 0)

I'm learning alot here on myDD.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 08:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey VAAL! (none / 0)

Most of it involving avoiding dog butt, which with your 12 at home could be a time-consuming activity... :~)


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yuk yuk and well yucky sometimes. (none / 0)

I have you know that I no longer have 12 dogs at my home the herd was reduced long time ago.

Besides my dog's "butts" aren't bad, it's people's "buts" that have been giving me grief.

LOL

My dogs are actually nice, civil, and have the good sense to like me very much. Which is good. And besides they are in total agreement with everyone of my deeply held and cherished beliefs unlike family members. This is why we spend the holidays with the dogs and not some members of the family.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:43:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you (none / 0)

Hey, VAAlex, get back here.  And bring... what's his name with you.  JohnnyCobra?  Does that ring a bell?


by MeganLocke on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't expect tips for this odd diary, (2.00 / 3)

I love you Sricki...even if you prefer the unrequited love of teh engels ;-)

Thanks for another great diary!


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ditto, JDF. (2.00 / 1)

Why does everyone know about my engels love?!? Am I so obvious??

Oh, wait, it's in my sig. LOL.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't expect tips for this odd diary, (none / 0)

On CNN International they showed the same video quite a few times a day. She really symbolizes a true supporter. Just like you Sricki Rec as usual


by canadian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a good diary... (2.00 / 10)

But I have a serious question for people like that lovely woman in the vid.

I have heard Clinton supporters, PUMA's, whatever they want to be called, say that McCain is at least an honorable man so they will vote for him and they will then take the White House in 2012.

I have a couple of questions:

1. If John McCain is an honorable man, and he does an honorable job (of getting us into more wars and selecting judges that will take away more of our rights?), but again, become a popular incumbant, do you think he will just give Hillary the White House in 4 years?

2. If you think he will do a lousy job, are you willing to risk the US getting into worse shape and having judges appointed to take away your rights for the chance of hopefully winning the dem nom in 2012?

IMHO, i don't think either one is a logical choice or bet to make if you truly love our country. Take Hillary's words to hart last night, were you just in it for her?


by IowaMike on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:56:12 PM EST

I agree with you on that, (2.00 / 6)

and I'm not even sure McCain is as honorable as I used to think. He's sold his soul to the GOP for a shot at the big time. He used to have principles.

I still don't think this woman is looking at the situation the right way. I think her perspective is a little skewed. But I think, in part, it's because she's still upset over Hillary, and I think watching Hillary stump for Obama over the next couple of months will help people like her. The fact that she said "I won't vote for McCain" immediately (twice) allowed me to listen to her with an open mind. I like her because she's clearly NOT a PUMA.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's still hurt... (2.00 / 3)

I've met people like her in my precinct walking down here in SoCal. They're certainly NOT PUMA McTrolls running around & spreading lies about Democrats. They're genuine HRC Democrats who were hurt by the personal attacks, hurt by the misogynistic smears tossed at Hillary & at so many HRC Democrats, hurt by the dreams they had falling to the wayside. They're hurt, and it's OK to show compassion toward these people. If we welcome them back with open arms, they'll work with us to help Democrats win.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She made me very sad, (2.00 / 2)

and I felt really guilty. Here was a woman who loved Hillary and worked hard for her, and I'd basically been calling her a selfish dumbass for months.

I hope her pain passes as quickly as possible.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nobody on here has called (none / 0)

that woman a selfish dumbass, Sricki.  Not you, not anyone that I know.


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's still hurt... (2.00 / 1)

Plenty of people on the Obama side were hurt as well by the crap coming from the Clinton campaign and supporters, but I suppose we can get over it more easily because our candidate won.


by Drummond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn straight! (none / 0)

... and also because, let's face it, we were slinging ourselves! (hug everyone, there'll be a new fight tommorra!)


*&=4eva
by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 7)

I saw that woman and had the exact same reaction. In the end, I think she'll come around, but I feel like a cad for diminishing that kind of grief, no matter how irrational not voting for the other Democrat might be.

Of course, if that grief eventually translates into "We can't let this Indonesian con man into office", then I'll be pissed. Afterwards, Anderson Cooper asked if they could get a word with her again after Thursday, and I will be interested to see what she has to say after that.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:03:58 PM EST

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 4)

If they can get her on board on Thursday, that might be enough to shut down this stupid "will they vote for McCain" meme that keeps sticking around.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 4)

I think that you miss something in your note.  Yes, you are right.   There are folks for whom it is genuinely hard to let go of the dream of their candidate, who they see as superior to the nominee, being denied.   And I agree, that feeling is real, and it is tough to surrender.  Though hopefully Hillary Clinton will lead by example and carry those people through to the nominee.

But there is another legitimate rationale for being conflicted, one which you implicitly dismiss in your closing point about not criticising the nominee.   While all democrats should be committed to Barrack Obama's agenda (which was almost the same as that of Hillary Clinton), some democrats are not sold on Obama the man.   I have never been able to connect with Obama the man.   I have not been able to read his heart in the same way as I have a number of our other leaders - Dennis Kucinich, Hillary Clinton, Teddy Kennedy are examples.  Joe Biden is one too.  I feel more connected to Michelle Obama than to her husband, feel that I understand her better as a human being.  But she is not the nominee.  

I still wonder about Obama's courage.  Would he have endured 5 years as a POW the way McCain did?  Would he have refused his own freedom out of honor?   Would he have shut the government down to stop the GOP advance, risking his own standing with the American people, the way Bill Clinton did?   Would he have had the strength to take the oath of office as a Senator while burying his young wife and child the way Joe Biden did?   Or carry on the legacy of three brothers who died in the line of public service, casting larger than life shadows, the way Teddy Kennedy did (and then show up from the hospital with kidney stones, an old man, to fight for what he believed in?).   Would he never sell out his beliefs, or craft his words for expediency - would he be unapologetically who he is - the way Dennis Kucinich is (disclosure, Dennis was my first choice in this election)?   And yes, would he have the tenacity to fight on, to find her voice, to get stronger in the battle, to hold her ground against the entire right wing of this country, to sustain an imperfect marriage - yet fall with a grace and sense of higher purpose that men with one tenth as much a claim to the nomination had done in the past -- like Hillary Clinton?   My answer is, "I don't know."  I haven't seen the courage of Obama.  I haven't seen him spill blood (his own or others').  I haven't seen his heart.  And until I do, I will love his policy positions, but be ambivalent about his candidacy.  That is not to say that I will not vote for him.  Most of the time I think that I will, and I will certainly not vote for McCain.   But this is the reason for my ambivalence.

If you do not like to hear about my reservations, then suit yourself.  You don't own this site, and certainly no one owns the right to experession.   I share my feelings here not to weaken our nominee, but to explain a point of view.  And those who would seek to shut their eyes to criticisms, whether those agreed with and shared or not (so long as they are genuinely expressed and not designed purely to hurt our candidate), surely believe that Senator Obama has no capacity to change, to grow.  That he must be accepted prima facia for who he is today, not what he might become.  Who is to say that he cannot look into himself and find a way to show his heart to those who have not seen it.   I believe that if he is a great leader, then he has a great heart within, and he can show it to the world.


by activatedbybush on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:15:12 PM EST

No, no, (none / 0)

I just meant people shouldn't come here just to bash him and say they won't vote for him. I know not everyone is entirely pleased with the nominee, and it's not like everyone has to drool ecstatically all over him all the time. But I do think there are certain PUMAs who come here to start trouble and raise "concerns", and that never helps anyone. People just end up attacking each other, and that never leads to productive discussion.

That's one of the things this lady said, by the way, which I understood -- she said Obama hadn't connected with her. It took me a long time to connect with him.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The bullshit bashing (none / 0)

"Obama hates women", "he's not one of us", "he has no experience".  That all has no place.  There will always be some people who oppose Obama purely because he has defeated Clinton.  That is, as Rachael Maddow points out, post-rational.   For those people in this category, I would ask them to imagine a world where Obama never beat Clinton.  It was just Obama and a field of minor players, and he won the nomination.  I would bet that most if not all of these PUMAs would have been very happy to support him (as I also believe that most Obama supporters would have supported Clinton w/o a problem if Obama hadn't run).   If you look at it that way, then your feelings about Clinton become irrelevant.  And you know what?  At this point in the process, that is exactly what they should be.


by activatedbybush on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The bullshit bashing (none / 0)

Activated--all of your points about the other democratic leaders were interesting and certainly valid points (in re would Obama have the strength to do what they did) but it must be said that you wouldn't have known about their capacity to lead in those circumstances before they did so. Nobody is ever truly "ready" for the Presidency. Some have what it takes and some do not. I believe with great confidence that Obama has what it takes. Your examples of other Dem heroism, while inspiring, doesn't make for a good argument as to why you have reservations about him.


by wasder on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:20:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure they do Wasder (none / 0)

Most of the examples of others that I provided were from their life experience, so I would have them to look at before voting for them.  Bill Clinton would be an exception since the example I gave for him happened after he took office.

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to demand more than "hope" and "faith" that a candidate has what it takes.  Certainly no one can ever predict exactly how one will perform as President.  No other job like it.  But I have seen character in some of the other candidates, both those running this time and those past that give me a sense for their heart.  I have not seen the same from Obama.


by activatedbybush on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sure they do Wasder (none / 0)

Well, many of those things are tragedies and not political trials (Biden losing his wife and daughter, Kennedy losing his brothers) and until something like that happens to a person there is no way to know how they would deal with it. I would suggest to you that there are plenty of points in Barack's life that suggest a similar kind of determination and fortitude. I mean the very fact that he is here now shows an amazing resiliency. This was a guy who got NO breaks in the great game of life--no father, no financial advantages, a mother who was absent for large stretches of his childhood--and moved past that to all of the accomplishments we are highlighting this week.


by wasder on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:05:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 5)

McCain's decision to stay a POW was made by Henry Kissenger (sp?).

Obama grew up a BLACK man with a single WHITE mom and two white grandparents in the USA.

He attended two Ivy League schools.

He became the editor of the Harvard Law Review.

He chose to work as a community organizer in Chicago instead of taking a cushy job on Wall Street.

Everything he has, he earned.  

He took on a "shoe-in" for the party's candidate for pres, and won.

He needs to show more fire consistently, to be sure.  But one cannot seriously say he has not faced adversity.


Liberal in So Cal
by lqbruin on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 4)

He shows more courage than most people ever do in their lives every time he gets up on stage out in an open venue wearing nothing but a white button down shirt.

Over the weekend 4 suspects where aprehended with sniper riffles and a plan to assasinate Obama when he accepts the parties nomination. They where planning this action for no other reason than the color of his skin.

You don't think he knows every time he gets up on the stage may be the last that ever pause he takes during a speach make mark his last breath that his children could grow up fatherless as he did?

You haven't seen his courage? When he walks through a crowd of thousands any one of which could have a gun waiting to make history in their own sick way?

There was a reason that Clinton's assasination comment pissed off so many Obama supporters. Because everyday we know it could happen.

Survival is not courage it did not take any great measure of courage for McCain to survive his time in the Hanoi Hilton it was in his own interest.

It is a pet peve of mine. Since when did surviving become a mark of heroism in this country. A hero is one who takes great risks for the sake of others. And Obama is taking that risk every day.

Don't talk to me about courage if you can't see that.


by Skex on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 05:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 1)

You ask about Obama's courage/honour/personality and about what "tests" he withstood to prove those.

For me the "test" is him keeping his identity and selecting the more "challenging" half of it. The intentional choice of staying an outsider to an extent. Why do I personally value it? I grew up an outsider - moved from one country to a very different one at elementary school age. So I know how big the temptation and presure are to fit in and conform.

For me there is an elementary bravery in keeping the name Barak Obama (he could have stayed Barry
as in school, he could have taken his mother's last name). Believe me it is very tempting - I changed my first name and I know many who changed their last. For someone who wanted a political career, Barry Dunham is a much easier name...

And then the subsequent choices, such as South Chicago (AA wife, AA church) - an unapologetic choice which didn't make his life an easier one.


by lolo08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:58:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

None of that matters. (none / 0)

What matters is getting out of Iraq, closing the torture chambers, and universal health care.  I'm pessimistic we will get the last one anytime soon, but I am hopeful we can get the first two.

And none of that requires superhuman powers.  All it requires is a normal man that understands that those are priorities.  If I were president, I could do it, and probably so could you.

So all these saintly character qualities that we look for in our leaders are nice and endearing and motivational, but that's not what a president really has to do at the end of the day.  

Make me president.  I'm a fairly loathsome character, my daughter's opinion notwithstanding.  Put me in a Vietnamese POW camp and I'd tell them to torture everybody else, just let me go.  But if I were president, I would without hesitation give executive orders bringing our troops home on an accelerated (maybe even precipitous) timetable, and I would close the torture chambers and ask Congress to hurry up and send me a healthcare bill to sign.  It doesn't take a best friend or a lover or a saint or the most experienced bureaucrat in Washington to do that.


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:33:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Loathsome? (none / 0)

Lol, Dumbo!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:39:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm trying to corner (none / 0)

that "loathsome" demographic.  


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 11:24:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Experience meme (2.00 / 4)

I think the experience thing can be dealt with two ways, I'm going to work on TWO diaries on it.

One is, what EXACTLY is McCain's relevant experience to be President?

Point by point, go over his resume. It may be LONGER but not sure it is that big a sell over Obama's.

Remember, we are NOT talking about Hillary vs Obama, we are talking McCain vs Obama.

Unless they literally are playing the "Vote in McCain now, then Hillary gets a shot in 2012?

Wow, that is risky BOTH ways, for how much damage that McCain can do in 4 years and assuming Hillary gets the nod in 2012...

But, those folks making that decision, walk away from them imo.

The SECOND Experience diary will be about the Cuban Missile Crisis, and JFK.

If you know that story, it's clear now, almost ALL the advisors, most with a LOT more "experience" then JFK were calling for him to bomb Cuba.

ONE voice, someone who knew Kruschev personally, said NO, Nikita is "sending a sign" he wants to back out of this.

Jack went with his gut and his instincts, and, as we all now know, there were ALREADY nukes in Cuba, and had we bombed them, the Russians would probably had retaliated.

So, what would McCAIN with his VAST experience have done there..

Well if virtually ALL your experience is Military, you lean with the generals.

If you OBama, and your experience is working on the streets trying to bring people together, do you make the same call ask Jack Kennedy did?


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:15:36 PM EST

I'll especially be looking forward (none / 0)

to that second one.

And for the people who value experience so much, they should keep in mind that McCain DOES have a good bit of it -- and entirely the wrong kind.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll especially be looking forward (2.00 / 1)

When reluctant Hillary supporters bring up Obama's supposed inexperience, I bring up that they said the same thing about Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton was the risky choice, Bill Clinton couldn't POSSIBLY take on H.W. Bush, Clinton was from a little state nobody's ever been to, he might as well have been mayor of Portland, ME, since the economy was about the same size. He was a political neophyte who was a smooth talker but didn't have any depth, and expertise, any understanding of foreign policy or how the world works. The democratic party regulars cried and wailed because this Clinton guy was going to get slaughtered.

Obama's smart. Damn smart. Obama's a fast learner (remember how his debate performances went from bad to okay to pretty damned impressive?) He also understands, on a fundamental level, how to organize people to make things happen. He understands that uplifting words and glowing speeches are important as TOOLS, not as an end to themselves. They create energy that can then be funneled into the greatest volunteer network in the history of American politics, they create energy that can be channeled into the greatest base of donors in the history of American politics. They create energy that can then be harnessed into a movement for progressive reform that, hopefully, will endure long after he is inaugurated.


by EvilAsh on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wash, you're making a mistake (2.00 / 1)

to address the "experience meme" head-on like that.  The best way to approach it is to counter-attack with some other meme, and I really like the ones that question McCain's competency.  That is what was so precious about the "How many homes?" scandal.  It worked two ways, firstly as a switcheroo on McCain's elitism meme, and secondly as a reminder that McCain is old and might not even remember where home is!

I said this before in other diaries:  The most experienced general in the world does you no good if he insists on fighting the wrong enemy.  And McCain, like Bush and the other neocons, have insisted on fighting the wrong enemies to the point where they are destroying our country.

So the question is not whether Obama is experienced enough or not (just answering the question means we lose because it puts us on defense) but whether McCain's best days are long past and he can't make the right decisions anymore.  (Iraq and Iran being a great case in point).


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:41:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 1)

I loathed Kerry in 2004. But I voted for him. Had I not, I would have been an idiot who cut off my own nose to spite my face.

This person should have just said no when asked to be on TV. Is that what she spent all the money to attend the convention to do-to spit on her own party?

Fools are never hard to find.


"I don't know too much about Sarah Palin, but perhaps that's the good news." -- GOP Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison
by Obama44 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:21:35 PM EST

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 2)

We have begun to see the separation between the PUMA movement and genuinely conflicted Clinton supporters. I'm very happy about that simply because we can start to tailor our message to those who vote on principle and on issues rather than those who vote in spite.


by TCQuad on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:21:52 PM EST

It's August. (none / 0)

If we have to tailor our message in September to appeal to disaffected Hillary supporters, we have already lost the election.  The time to do that was the summer.  

We should be trying to take Independents and first-time voters away from McCain, as well as disaffected Republicans.  If we become bogged-down defending our rear-flank, we're screwed.


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:43:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Diary is rec'ed. Very nicely put..Agreed with (2.00 / 2)

almost everything..however I've concerns about the last paragraph. Well thought critique of Democratic party leaders including Obama like his FISA vote cannot be expressed openly. There will be occassions where his and the party decisions would be different from what progressives would like. And I see no reason why we cannot critique those in a progressive blog like MyDD.


by louisprandtl on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:22:04 PM EST

Sorry my second sentence should read (none / 0)

Why should well thought out critique of Democratic party leaders including Obama like his FISA vote cannot be expressed openly?


by louisprandtl on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry my second sentence should read (2.00 / 2)

Your sentence structure confuses me but allow me to take a crack at your question (sort of.)

I believe that we should talk about his FISA vote and why it is a problem. I think we should talk about where he has let down some progressives and I think we should talk about ways he can improve.

That being said, until Novemvber, we should talk about all of this through the lens of how to communicate this to the man we are STILL going to vote for as President. We do not live in a country where there are multiple choices.

Sure you can vote for Nader or McKinney or even Barr, but in my mind that is the same as not voting. It is meaningless. It is an empty gesture. Sure you can vote for McCain, but that is stabbing all of your friends and fellow progressives in the back. Sure you can choose not to vote but that is basically abdicating your responsibility as a progressive.

The bottom line is whether you like him or not Obama has to be our guy. I personally like our choice, but I can understand why a lot of people don't. It doesn't matter at this point because as everyone who spoke last night pointed out- we CANNOT afford 4 more years.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:10:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I want to be very clear in what I meant.. (2.00 / 1)

There is no question that we'll vote for Obama. But if somebody comes (want to be clear this is not what Sricki meant) and tells me that we all have to march lock, step and barrel, even when he makes a decision that is contrary to progressive policies or beliefs, then I have a fundamental problem with that marching order. Howard Zinn wouldn't get on that train, if you get my drift. The day MyDD becomes a similar place like some of the other well known blogs, I'll back out silently..


by louisprandtl on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:17:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't mean no one could disagree with him, (2.00 / 2)

I raised hell about FISA, if you remember. I just meant people shouldn't come here for the SOLE purpose of raising doubts. I think I'd better change that paragraph, since you're the second person who's said something.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks..i do remember your commentaries (2.00 / 1)

on FISA. Thanks for clarifying what you meant.


by louisprandtl on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ahhh, my FISA diary. (2.00 / 2)

Heh. I got a couple of Obama purity trolls on my ass for that one. Still can't shake one of them.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:37:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 3)

Nice post.  I agree completely that this was an earnest interview, and my suggestion is that Obama take a few minutes to meet her personally.


by Drummond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:36:34 PM EST

I think she's a product of a primary (2.00 / 4)

that simply lasted too long.  She simply needs time to emotionally cope with the disappointment.

To put it another way:

Had Hillary not run, would she be sitting there wondering whether or not to support Barack Obama?  

No.

The best approach is to give people like her their space.  


by Geekesque on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:40:17 PM EST

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 3)

I saw that interview late last night. I dont know but I understood where Ann Price Mills was coming from. I hadn't seen it earlier because i hate watching the punditry. but the interview was really heartfelt & genuine. I didn't agree with everything she said but I respected her because this was more than just an election to her. and she definitely invested more than just time and energy into it.

the part that got me was when she was saying [paraphrase] you saw it yourselves, you saw it yourselves, you know that was a presidential speech; you know it. at the end of the week when you start tearing up the speeches, and you know you will, you know that was a presidential speech.[!] the way she said it, her face; pure anguish.

just a random passing window into what alot of peeps are going through.


by alyssa chaos on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:59:42 PM EST

It was.. (2.00 / 2)

the conviction and look in her eyes when she spoke of the press tearing into the speeches that just slayed me.

When they cut to Anderson Cooper, I was half-expecting to see Wolf Blitzer committing seppuku or at least rending his hair and begging for forgiveness. Hell at that moment if I was a member of the "best political team on television" I would have.


by CanuckinMA on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 3)

Well, I can't agree with one on this one and not in the mood for a flame war so I'll keep this kind of shorfor the most part) because I could really go on a rant about this.

I will say I found very troubling that a Democratic delegate on the Convention floor would express doubts about Obama while at the same time leaving the door open to voting for McCain.  

On live TV of course while being interviewed by a major news channel.  On the floor during the Democratic Convention. To the MSM hyenas. After Hillary had given one of the best and most moving speeches I had ever seen from her.

Their is a place and time for everything and she did no one (especially Hillary) any favors. I'm sure many people ( hey, maybe even Chelsea) still have their reservations about Barack and I have no trouble with that.  But for the most part they have the presence of mind to know when, how, and to whom they express themselves in this manner.

Their is a reason why this video is making the rounds in PUMA mailings and blogs and Republican sites. She gave many people great ammunition and fawning over McCain the man didn't help things either.

As I said, I respect what she said I just think she chose a  very bad place and time to say those things. She could of played it a lot better.

You all know I'm pretty fair when it comes to seeing speaking my mind around here so I hope this is not seen as an "attack".

If I'm flamed, I will understand and not take it personal.

I've said enough.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:03:33 PM EST

Well it might not have been (2.00 / 2)

the best time to say all that, but she was emotional, and I understand.

She didn't leave the door open to voting for McCain, though. She was very clear about that. She just didn't know if she'd vote. I just found it very poignant and touching.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:07:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well it might not have been (none / 0)

I replied to my post about that part. I reread and noticed I wasn't being clear by what I meant.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I gotcha. (2.00 / 1)

I understand why you thought the time/place was inappropriate. I guess I'm just chalking it up to her being really emotional after Hillary's speech. I didn't even stop to think about it, really, I was so interested in the interview.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:16:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 1)

at the same time leaving the door open to voting for McCain.  

This is not in the literal sense by the way.

But you can't say you won't vote for McCain and then say you don't know if you'll vote for Obama. You've got 2 choices and a vote for anybody but Obama is a vote against him.

As for the fawning part, if you're talking about "experience" being the reason you might not vote for him than you are very clearly implying the other candidate has it.

Wanted to make sure that was clear, as I don't want the rest of my post to be misinterpreted b/c of those 2 comments. Although it probably will be anyways.

I rec'd by the way b/c as I said. I understand where she is coming from and respect her opinion.  I also understand where many other commenters who feel like her mean. So on MyDD I have no problems with this type of language.

But I have trouble with the timing and the place.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (none / 0)

That's not really true that there are only 2 choices.  If you choose not to vote at all or vote for a 3rd party candidate, this is not the same thing as voting for McCain.
Not that I support either of those alternatives, but I'd vastly prefer that if she's not voting for Obama, then she not vote at all rather than voting for McCain.
by bottl4 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 4)

While I totally support the premise of this diary I must agree with spaceman here and say I also was troubled by the timing of this statement. But more than being upset with the delegate in question I am bummed that the media is so obsessed with uncovering examples of disunity in the party. Its like they will turn over every stone to find every last shred of dissonance to feature. I found this woman to be sincere and thoughtful (and she definitely said she couldn't vote for McCain) but I would have preferred that she express these feelings at a different time and/or declined the opportunity to air these thoughts.


by wasder on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do understand that concern. (2.00 / 3)

But really, this was a nice change for the MSM. They found a Clinton supporter who wasn't screaming and hurling accusations all over the place. I'm amazed they let her speak as long as they did.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 2)

...you are attempting to see from another person's perspective. Rec'd.


by soyousay on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:05:19 PM EST

Re: This is a good diary because... (1.50 / 2)

Why don't you try that sometime yourself?


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 1)

I just did...now why did you have to put a negative spin on this? Sheesh!


by soyousay on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 1)

I just did.

Where?


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe she meant (2.00 / 1)

she was being open-minded by rec'ing my diary? SYS and I have had "run-ins" in the past, you see. ;)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 1)

I could have said that this diary was nothing more pandering, although I don't believe it was. Also, I've pointed out in other diaries that Obama made a good decision in reference to Biden. I've stated in the past that I would listen with an open mind to what Obama has to say during the debates.

In reference to you; I see nothing but negativity toward those who don't see things the way you do.


by soyousay on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 1)

In reference to you; I see nothing but negativity toward those who don't see things the way you do.

So you say?

Irony is THICK right now.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:53:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 1)

I give it to you because IMO you deserve it. I'm sure the feeling is mutual. So, there ya go.

FYI; my candidate lost, I have nothing to lose by going negative; you do. I'm just one individual, but many look at this site.


by soyousay on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (1.50 / 6)

I have nothing to lose by going negative; you do.

Don't dish if you can't take it "sweetie". This is a blog, not political warfare. You'd do a lot better if you didn't take yourself so seriously or think so highly of your opinion.

Please, spare me the lectures and bullshit psychoanalysis.

I'm just one individual, but many look at this site.

.... and they see you for the joke you are.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:12:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (1.83 / 6)

Don't dish if you can't take it "sweetie".

SEXIST!

LOL, kidding. But you know you've opened yourself up to that now. Personally, I prefer the "holding on sweeties", like my engels.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn! (2.00 / 1)

TR'd twice in one day already! LOL, and I hardly even post here anymore!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:25:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Damn! (2.00 / 1)

I did write "sweetie".

That's very, very, very offensive.

I should be banned for that.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You aren't allowed to talk (2.00 / 1)

about plain old "sweeties" here, spiffy. Only the "holding on" kind.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You aren't allowed to talk (2.00 / 1)

I miss my holding on sweetie.

I wonder what teh engels thinks about Hillary's speech.

Poor thing must be so confused right now.

If you are lurking engels, please write a diary because the community wants to know your thoughts are on this.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The poor holding on sweetie (2.00 / 1)

probably didn't understand the speech.

Hillary use lots of big words that is difficult for a engels understanding. Welcome to landslide without stoopid voters and holding on chads!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:54:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The poor holding on sweetie (none / 0)

It's "holding-on sweeties".  It's better with the dash.

and in bold.  and italicized.


by MeganLocke on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 09:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (2.00 / 1)

...and they see a person that is a partisan hack that likes to start sh@t and does a diservice to his candidate. You don't represent well.


by soyousay on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:17:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know you are but what am I ? (1.50 / 6)

Oh. I get it.

...and they see a person that is a partisan hack that likes to start sh@t and does a diservice to his candidate.

I'm Jonh McCain, and I approve this message.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is a good diary because... (none / 0)

lotta psychoananists Spacemanspiff wanna be specific? :D


by 12 dogs and a blog on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 05:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is the diary I was looking for. Well done. (2.00 / 2)

I watched Hillary's speech on C-SPAN, free from pundit commentary. I switched to CNN just to get an idea of how it went over and caught this interview with Ann Price-Mills.

As an Obama supporter at first I was mortified and was milliseconds away from switching back to C-SPAN. Thankfully, I did not. It was her earnestness, her eloquence, her very real pain that kept me riveted.

At the end of her interview I recognized one important point. Despite her pain, despite what I can only imagine as her overwhelming vulnerability at that very moment she blamed no one for her candidate's loss. Not the media (although she had powerful words about them), not the DNC, and most importantly, not Obama.

That was the difference between her and what my idea of a Hillary holdout was.

She wants to believe again. She has not closed her mind . She and anyone like her are who Obama should be trying to win over.

And make no mistake. He will.


by CanuckinMA on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:22:52 PM EST

Love the way you put that. (2.00 / 1)

Not my idea of a Hillary hold-out either. The ones we normally see on TV are furious and... well, sorry, but they come across as pretty damn bitter. This woman was, indeed, eloquent in her pain. She impressed me mightily.

I think Barack will speak to her eventually. And she'll be listening.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (1.00 / 3)

What's the point of this?  Do you really want to get into another round of bullshit fights about his experience vs. her experience?  This is crap.  Obama shouldn't have to spend the next two months winning over Democrats.  That woman made me sick.  What a selfish, pompous asshole to take her whine onto National television and question his experience.  Is it any wonder people say Democrats always find a way to lose.


by Piuma on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:32:05 PM EST

What a lovely attitude that is! (none / 0)

And what a lovely, compassionate person you undoubtedly are.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 2)

Every diary needs a pooper, that's why we invited you.

Seriously, it was a pretty poor place to voice concerns like this, but it wasn't malicious at all.  She is genuinely heartbroken, and for me it was actually refreshing to see some Democratic opposition to Obama that seemed open to reason.  This woman doesn't deserve the scorn that should be reserved for assholes that call our nominee "Barky" and "BamBam".


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (none / 0)

She should have had the good sense and loyalty to the Party not to do it on TV.  That's my objection.  And there's no need to continue this on the blogosphere. There's just no need to continue it at all.  And there's every reason and need not to.  Time to get focussed.  Anyone thinking electing the first black man President is going to be a cakewalk is living in a dream world.  Anyone thinking it is going to be easy to overcome the power of corporate America which is dead set against us is living in a dream world.  Enough already. We have a tremendous task ahead of us.


by Piuma on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 4)

"We have a tremendous task ahead of us."

Agreed wholeheartedly.  And part of that task is reaching out to people like Ann Price-Mills who are open to reason but still not convinced.  Calling them selfish, pompous assholes doesn't serve any of us any good.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 2)

Okay. You're right.


by Piuma on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 1)

Thank you.  Like I said earlier, there ARE plenty of people that actually deserve to be castigated for their childishness.  There are supposed Clinton supporters that are actively undermining her message by seeing "hidden" messages in her speech last night.  Out of morbid curiousity, I cruised some of the darker places last night only to see someone (whose name is similar to an allergy medication) saying that Hillary's "We're Americans, we're not big on quitting" line was a secret message for 2012.

Those are the types that deserve our scorn... those that actively undermine Hillary's message and are completely unwilling to listen to reason or reality.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (none / 0)

I wouldn't be surprised if someone saw her teary and and just walked up and asked for an interview. She may not have had time to think about the who interview process.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:52:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 2)

She should have had the good sense and loyalty to the Party not to do it on TV.  That's my objection.  

I agree and said as much upthread.

And there's no need to continue this on the blogosphere.

And there is no need to come into a diary or a blog like you own the place. Seriously, chill. This is the internet, don't take yourself so damn seriously. Geez.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She doesn't deserve scorn. (none / 0)

She's not an asshole.  But we took a serious wound when she appeared on CNN.  

I don't know why all this has to be seen through personal, sentimental lenses.  There are a lot of people hurt by this election, just like every election, and the feelings run the gamut.  But this woman was chosen to be a pledged delegate at the Democratic Nomination Convention.  Now she's a tape on Youtube and on Obama hit sites.  Whatever the real person's problems are they aren't that important.


by Dumbo on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:57:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The point is... (2.00 / 1)

Empathy.

If there was more of it going around the world would be a better place.

The world as it should be, not as it is. Last time I checked that's what we Democrats were fighting for.


by CanuckinMA on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I Think I Understand You (2.00 / 4)

I said it elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here: Supporters like this woman were ill-served.

She clearly identified with and felt a passionate connection to her candidate. OK, that's common enough. However, with the Clinton campaign promoting "Hillary" for president, and making strong gender and generational appeals, that identification may have crossed into areas that overwhelmed some people. Her supporters truly felt it was her turn, and given the identification, that meant "their" turn. I think that some of them were not quite ready for the emotional intensity.

The media and the pundits, treating both candidates shabbily as usual, seemed to take special aim on a favorite figure in Clinton, and that only served to deepen the identification: by attacking her the media was actually attacking them, and for many, it was a replay of past attacks on Clinton in the 90s, and the attacks they themselves felt in their own lives. It was pretty clear in New Hampshire, and later in the campaign: the more the media was perceived to be unfair to Clinton, the more hardened